Journals of the Senate
1st Session, 41st Parliament
Issue 146
Wednesday, March 20, 2013
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Baker, Batters, Bellemare, Beyak, Boisvenu, Braley, Brown, Buth, Callbeck, Carignan, Chaput, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dagenais, Dallaire, Day, Demers, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Enverga, Fraser, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, MacDonald, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, McInnis, McIntyre, Mercer, Merchant, Meredith, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oh, Patterson, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Seidman, Seth, Sibbeston, Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tardif, Tkachuk, Unger, Verner, Wallace, Wallin, Wells, White, Zimmer
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
*Andreychuk, *Ataullahjan, Baker, Batters, Bellemare, Beyak, Boisvenu, Braley, Brown, Buth, Callbeck, Carignan, Chaput, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dagenais, Dallaire, *Dawson, Day, *De Bané, Demers, *Downe, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Enverga, *Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, MacDonald, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, McInnis, McIntyre, Mercer, Merchant, Meredith, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oh, *Oliver, Patterson, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Seidman, Seth, Sibbeston, *Smith (Cobourg), Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tardif, Tkachuk, Unger, Verner, Wallace, Wallin, Wells, White, Zimmer
The first list records senators present in the Senate Chamber during the course of the sitting.
An asterisk in the second list indicates a senator who, while not present during the sitting, was in attendance to business, as defined in subsections 8(2) and (3) of the Senators Attendance Policy.
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Tributes
Tribute was paid to the Honourable Senator Brown, who will retire from the Senate on March 22, 2013.
Senators' Statements
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Tabling of Documents
The Honourable the Speaker tabled the following:
Report of the Canadian Human Rights Commission for the year 2012, pursuant to the Canadian Human Rights Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. H-6, sbs. 61(4), and the Employment Equity Act, S.C. 1995, c. 44, s. 32.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41- 1517.
Presenting or Tabling Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Day, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance, tabled its seventeenth report (2012-2013 Main Estimates).—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1518S.
The Honourable Senator Day moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mercer, that the report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Gerstein, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce, tabled its tenth report entitled: Follow the Money: Is Canada Making Progress In Combatting Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing? Not Really.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1519S.
The Honourable Senator Gerstein moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Runciman, that the report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
SPEAKER'S RULING
On Thursday, February 14, Senator Tardif rose on a point of order to object to the statement made earlier in the sitting by Senator Boisvenu. According to the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, the statement made by Senator Boisvenu was inappropriate under the terms of rule 4-2(6) which explains "that matters raised during Senators' Statements shall not be subject to debate''. Senator Tardif sought guidance on the proper content and use of statements.
In the exchanges that followed involving Senator Carignan and Senator Cowan, it is clear that there are at least two alternative views about the nature and character of statements. According to Senator Carignan, the purpose of rule 4- 2(6) is to prohibit any debate arising from a statement whether or not there is agreement about the point of view expressed in the statement. From Senator Cowan's perspective, however, the nature of the subject matter should have a role in determining whether it is appropriate as a statement or whether it should be presented in the form of an inquiry or motion.
I want to thank honourable senators for raising this matter. I have considered the possibility of guidelines as Senator Tardif and others requested. There have been a number of rulings in recent years which suggests that there is some confusion with the current operation of the rules.
In reality, the practice of having Senators' Statements has been a feature of the daily sitting since 1991. The rules governing statements have remained fundamentally the same even with the recent revision of the Rules of the Senate. The criteria used to determine the subject matter of a statement are not particularly restrictive. The only clear limitation is that the subject of a statement should not relate to an order of the day. This is explained in rule 4-2(5)(b). This rule and 4-2(5)(a) also propose that statements should relate to matters of public interest that a senator believes should be brought to the immediate attention of the Senate. What "immediate attention'' means is somewhat difficult to determine precisely. A qualification is raised in Rule 4-2(5)(b) when it suggests that no alternative means be available for bringing the matter to the attention of the Senate. As Senator Cowan pointed out the subject matter of a statement could be presented in the form of a motion or an inquiry. While this would certainly open the matter up to debate, it would also require notice of either one or two days. If the matter is urgent and immediate, this delay might be unacceptable.
As currently written, the Rules do not provide the Speaker with guidance to determine whether the subject matter of a statement is of such a nature that only through a statement can it be brought to the immediate attention of the Senate. Nor do I believe the Senate would want the Speaker to exercise such authority. This is better left to the judgment of individual senators and to the Senate as a whole. If there is need to refine the rules with respect to Senators' Statements, this is best left to the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament. The committee can recommend through a report to the Senate any changes that could better clarify the criteria for determining any further limitations on the subject matter of statements. It would then be up to the Senate to decide whether to accept any recommendations to the rules respecting Senators' Statements.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Other
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
At 2:56 p.m., pursuant to the order adopted on March 19, 2013, the Senate was adjourned during pleasure and put into a Committee of the Whole in order to receive Mr. Graham Fraser respecting his appointment as Commissioner of OfficialLanguages, the Honourable Senator Comeau in theChair.
—In the Committee—
Pursuant to the order adopted on March 19, 2013, Mr.Graham Fraser was escorted to his seat in the SenateChamber.
Debate.
Ordered, That the Committee rise, and that the Chair report that the Committee has heard the witness.
The sitting of the Senate resumed.
The Chair of the Committee informed the Senate that the Committee has heard the witness.
Motions
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Nolin:
That, in accordance with Section 49 of the Official Languages Act, R.S.C., 1985, Chapter 31 (4th Supp.), the Senate approve the appointment of Graham Fraser as Commissioner of OfficialLanguages.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Bills — Third Reading
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable SenatorPatterson, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wallace, for the third reading of Bill C-27, An Act to enhance the financial accountability and transparency of FirstNations.
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator Dyck moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Chaput, that Bill C-27 be not now read a third time but that it be read a third time this day six months hence.
The Honourable Senator Chaput moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hubley, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Bills — Second Reading
Orders No. 1 to 6 were called and postponed until the nextsitting.
At 4:48 p.m., pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on October 18, 2011, the Senate adjourned until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 14-1(7):
Copy of Order in Council P.C. 2013-280 dated March 7, 2013, concerning the Agreement on Social Security between Canada and the Republic of Bulgaria and the Administrative Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the Republic of Bulgaria for the Implementation of the Agreement on Social Security between Canada and the Republic of Bulgaria, pursuant to the Old Age Security Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. O-9, sbs.42(1).—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1516.